As an expression of radical thought, Rainaldo Graziani promoted the political and cultural laboratory Orientamenti e Ricerca in Italy during the 1980s and 1990s. He is also the founder of Meridiano Zero, primarily a Roman youth organization. In the early 1990s, he led C’entri – transpolitical and geopolitical studies and workshops. For the past six years, he has been promoting the thoughts of Alexander Dugin and was recently included among the founders of the association MultipolArt. He describes himself as a “cartographer” in mapping new existential routes for navigating postmodernity. With an education rooted in Evola and Jung, he continues his path of political and doctrinal education through the acceptance of Dugin’s philosophy.
In a conversation with Mr. Rainaldo Graziani, we discussed various topics, with a particular emphasis on the complementarity of traditionalist thought currents in the context of the modern world, shedding light on the political and spiritual challenges that today’s society faces. We examined different aspects of the contemporary era and its challenges—from the technocratic order to the role of the spiritual elite in society, as well as the concept of the Radical Subject (a person who carries tradition but without direct reliance on it) and its significance for the modern individual. The interview also explores the questions of the relationship between Europe and the Eurasian movement, as well as the role of youth in their quest for meaning in a world increasingly marked by ideological and spiritual crises.
Dear Mr. Graziani, in a recent interview you mentioned Julius Julius Evola and his relationship to modernity, which led me to think that we should start this interview with him. On one hand, we have Evola’s concept of “Riding the Tiger”, which rejects the struggle against the forces of modernity; on the other hand, we find the concept of Ivan Ilyin, who speaks of actively opposing evil to preserve social order and the moral integrity of society. On whose thoughts should today’s Europe rely more? Is it currently more necessary to “flee into the forest” or to assume a moral duty in opposing evil?
In my opinion, these two perspectives are not opposed; rather, I would call them complementary. Evola’s book Riding the Tiger, as well as Jünger’s Treatise on the Rebel, serve as guides for those who live in a world to which they do not belong and refuse to be overcome by it. The political practice that enables the complementarity of these views is based on the spiritual meaning of war and does not prevent the alternation of thought and action, whether within the framework of cultural and political background or in the cultural and political avant-garde.
Even in military disciplines, the avant-garde does not exist without a background and vice versa. For Evola and Jünger, the modern era exhibits the same characteristics of a disintegrating epoch: uncontrolled or criminally planned migration flows, social models in conflict with themselves, idolization of technique and money, false myths, insecurity, and the lostness of the individual. This is the context in which man lives today. This is the tiger.
Similarly to the previous question, do you believe that the modern world is at the peak of technocracy, which is increasingly manifested in the form of artificial intelligence that nearly destroys all human potential and creativity?
The “technocratic order” is still in full swing. The implementation of its plans, initiated in Europe in the early 1990s, has yet to be completed. Technocratic totalitarianism is yet to be realized. I would like to provide an example of this transition. Imagine the medieval period. Now remove the word “God” from that period – the Middle Ages no longer exist; they are no longer conceivable. Art in the Middle Ages is sacred, and warfare is conducted in the name of God. Without the concept of “God”, the Middle Ages do not exist. In modern times, God has become Money, and it prevails. Today, in this phase of transition from modernity to postmodernity, if you remove the word “money”, the world does not lose its meaning because, in postmodernity, technology is the logical key to understanding the world.
Kali Yuga is often described as an age of chaos, materialism, and spiritual decay. In your opinion, what are the most prominent signs of Kali Yuga in today’s world, and how can individuals nurture inner strength and wisdom to navigate these dark years successfully?
Cyborg identity, separation from the metaphysical dimension, inversion of all traditional values. Our response is twofold. On a collective level, the answer is: to be a community. On an individual level, the answer is: to embody the Radical Subject. A MAN OF TRADITION WITHOUT TRADITION. In this concept, one recognizes that ‘heroic realism’ which allows for the overcoming of nihilism.
You have been collaborating with Alexander Dugin for a long time, so the question of the conflict against Western hegemony is almost unavoidable. Recently, there has been increasing talk of a clash between Western dominance and the idea of a world where different civilizations would have their own spaces of operation and influence. How do you see this global confrontation, and how do you believe the concept of Eurasian cooperation could influence the future of Europe and the world as a whole?
The current conflict, as brilliantly described by Darya Dugin and Professor Dugin, has two main actors: Man and Nothingness. This metaphysical conflict is not only real but also palpable. From this fundamental opposition arises the dichotomy between a unipolar worldview (American hegemony on the planet) and a multipolar one. States and their borders have lost all significance. Vast spaces of civilizations are emerging and taking shape, increasingly assuming the connotation of empires.
When we talk about true Europe, which has been under the influence of the United States for many years, how do you see its position in the context of the Eurasian movement? In what way can Europe free itself from this influence and rediscover its authentic role in a world striving for multipolarity?
New anti-technocratic political subjects must emerge. The Eurasian movement is a synthesis of these macro-regional movements. Europe will be free as soon as we rid ourselves of the financial elites. And in this field, the war is open. The foundation of BRICS, its founders are trying to consolidate this project through doctrinal and philosophical principles. China relies on Confucian philosophy, India on ancient Vedas, and Russia on Aristotelian economics.
Considering that the idea of Eurasian cooperation is often linked to the future of Europe and the world, where do you see Italy’s place in this concept? What role could Italy play in shaping a multipolar world within the Eurasian framework?
This question is equally important as the others, but it has an answer filled with beauty. One of our “polar stars”, Dragoš Kalajić, said that when he was in Russia, he felt like an Italian, and when he was in Italy, he felt like a Russian. Only a great Serb, with the idea of Greater Serbia truly flowing through his veins, could create this wonderful synthesis. In these words, our model for all European peoples, lies the answer.
We must briefly touch on art. Some authors believe that there is a sort of anti-dialectic (in relation to Hegel’s understanding of art) in the historical progression of contemporary art, and that we are witnessing an accelerated degeneration, starting from Impressionism, where the inner feelings of the artist are brought to the surface, to today’s stage where conceptual art has prevailed, resembling some form of ritual, with no objectified artwork, just an empty gallery space with the artist in the role of an actor. What do you consider the meaning of today’s art, and what is the role of the artist in the 21st century?
I am not sufficiently qualified to speak about art. My opinion is that art is a powerful weapon. Art is a universal language that breaks down linguistic barriers. In the Eurasian movement, we have many multipolar artists in various disciplines. One of them, above all, has a perfect answer to the second part of this question. His name is Alexei Gvintovt.
What is the place of traditionalist (perennialist) philosophy in Europe today? What are the main challenges it faces, what does it strive for, and do you believe that networking all traditionalists in Europe is crucial for the survival of the continent itself? Do you believe these movements have the potential to shape the future of Europe, and even the world, and what strategies should they adopt to remain relevant?
Today, in my opinion, traditionalist philosophy finds itself at a strategic crossroads for the thought and action of the “differentiated man”. Immanence or transcendence? This is not a simple question. This question raises the final positioning (or not) in the postmodern world, understood as a kind of cycle we are entering.
The time has come for us, traditionalists, to internalize Tradition to such an extent that we can remain faithful to it, even in its absence, even when there is no trace of it in the external world, nor any distant imprint. What happens when postmodernism destroys the modern era in which Tradition was present, even if it was not essential and central? Here, the doctrine of the Radical Subject is introduced!
Traditionalism often emphasizes the role of the spiritual or intellectual elite. What do you think, what role should such an elite have in modern society? Do you believe they have a chance to influence contemporary culture, and what position does the spiritual and intellectual elite of Italy find itself in?
The answer lies in the works of Darya Dugina. She was not only a philosopher but also a militant. Her idea of Traditionalism is closely linked to political action—everyday militant activity where the political and spiritual dimensions are grounded in political practice. In Italy, the discussion about Tradition and postmodernity is widespread. It is a debate that is in constant evolution, with many different or conflicting interpretations. I believe that from Lisbon to Saint Petersburg, it is very important to follow those Italian cultural workshops on the theme of Tradition.
Many young people today feel lost and disoriented, and many are attracted to radical ideologies, whether leftist or rightist. What advice would you give to young people who are seeking a deeper sense of purpose or meaning in today’s ideological landscape?
The avant-gardes and the rearguards must not lose their connection with each other. They must see themselves as complementary and act according to their nature, but always in the function of one another, not against one another. There can be no exploration without concrete testimony.
For the end, what message would you give to conservative movements in Serbia? What would be your advice or message?
The destination is the journey. A Serb must travel to other countries and activate their curiosity. No one in the world can change a Serb; their roots are like the roots of the ash tree. A Serb is the best and strongest link between different peoples. A Serb resembles the double god Janus…
